Message Boards

Hi, I have found a house for sale that has been on the market for 176 days. I LOVE it when I think about the potential it has. Realistically, the only thing it has going for it right now besides vaulted ceilings is square footage. The inside basically needs to be gutted completely (I would keep the layout the same other than take one wall down). It is priced at what comparable homes in the neighborhood are selling for when they have been nicely renovated. Our realtor doesn't think they will take "much" lower of an offer, but honestly I think it's overpriced by about $40,000-$60,000 at $280,000 (this is a small town in Alberta, and for the most part very much a "buyers market"), because of the work it needs. How do I make sure my offer is regarded seriously, even though it will seem like low-balling? I really want to get this house for the price it should be at! I just have no idea, as this is our first time buying a house, how to make sure an offer is accepted... Is there anything I can do?

Yes, study comps (of like kind sold) and TELL your Realtor to do her job and find them for ya!! THEN, submit them with the offer!

Who's she/he working for - the buyer or he seller!! GEEEZZZ! The sellers Realtors' job is to get the best top price...and the buyers' Realtor' job is to get the lowest possible offer accepted.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: real estate lady,

"fairygoodmama," Welcome to the Real Estate Boards and I really hope that it works out the way you want!

Biggest thing given the situation you describe is to make sure that your real estate agent understands the meaning of comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges! Meaning that using a standard square footage value ISN'T a fair comparable between renovated houses and those that need to be gutted and re-built.

A word of caution here, don't let your heart lead your mind into disaster by over-paying just because you have fallen in love with the place "it could be" - you are buying the house as it is now.

It's hard when it might be "your first place" BUT don't do it! Tell your agent to find other houses in THE SAME CONDITION before talking to you about the fact that the sellers "won't come down much." Please post back and let us know how things are going!

PS. Forgot to address your question re how to get your "low-ball" offer taken seriously. Get estimates of what it would take to bring the house up to the level of those in the area that have been renovated to be comparable and add those estimates as an attachment to your offer.

I think these sellers are well aware of the difficulties they face since you say it has been on the market some 176 days - they are just hoping to find someone falls in love and throws caution to the wind - regardless of cost.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Idaho Resident,

Sounds like a seller who is chasing the market, down.

My question - is it a gut job because of your personal preferences. By gut job do you mean cosmetic repairs or would you really need to take it down to almost the studs (my definition of gut job) and rebuild to make it habitable?

Get your agent to include comps with your offer. Also, get your agent to explain why he thinks they won't come down. I have been surprised by more than one offer that has been accepted for my buyers.

Thank you all for your replies. I will absolutely get my realtor(who is also the listing agent :s) to include comp sales and the renovation estimates. And no, some of the house does not require to be gutted, but the white carpets have stains all over, including mildew spots around the toilet! The bathrooms, kitchen, basement will all need to have some issues addressed, not just for cosmetic reasons. I am glad that my husband is handy and that he is in charge of making sure we don't pay more than he wants to for this house. Again, great advice, thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by Charming:
Also, get your agent to explain why he thinks they won't come down. I have been surprised by more than one offer that has been accepted for my buyers.

Just the other day, there was a First Place episode to this point. The seller had already dropped the price from $235k to $219k, which put the house right in line with sold comps.

The message being repeated by both agents was that the sellers weren't going to accept an offer much less than $219k.

Instead, the buyers submitted at $207. It was rejected with no counter offer and a message that the seller would consider a new offer if it was at $216k. Instead, the buyers submitted a new offer for $210,250. Surprise, surprise --the seller accepted it!

The sellers did so on the condition that they wouldn't give anything for any repairs resulting from the inspection.

That didn't hold true, either.

In the end, the seller paid to redo a shower pan problem AND gave the buyers $800 towards some electrical and plumbing issues.

So, it just goes to show that "you never know" and "nothing ventured, nothing gained".

Sorry, Jewel, but I sure would not go by what is on HGTV. We know that these shows are 'setup' and it is possible that the numbers shown for negotiations are there just to provide drama, not a reflection of what really happened.

Metwo -- I have not just fallen off the turnip truck. Perhaps you've noticed me posting on these boards for several years?

I fully realize the limitations of using HGTV shows for reference. However, in this case, any editing or scripting for dramatic effect doesn't materially change the value of the message, which is: it doesn't hurt to try.

Several years ago working with clients for a 2nd home condo. We finally found one that they liked. It was priced at $250,000, well within their range. My buyers decided to offer $209,000. I warned them that the sellers would probably come back with a counter of about $240 or so if not more. With them warned we submitted the offer. The listing agent was as dubious as I was. Surprise - the seller took the offer as submitted!

Unfortunately, this story does not have a completely happy ending. What we didn't know and what the listing agent was not fully aware of was the seller was extremely ill and was trying to get his affairs in order.

quote:

my realtor(who is also the listing agent

YIKES! I think you need to tell your agent that you want someone to represent YOU!

quote:

Originally posted by Ladelta:

quote:

my realtor(who is also the listing agent

YIKES! I think you need to tell your agent that you want someone to represent YOU!

Oh wow, I missed that!

OP - Get your own agent. If you have not signed an agency agreement - find an agent to represent your interests. The listing agent owes his/her loyalty to the seller, not you.

BOOM!

That is why the agent is trying to talk you "UP" in your offer. .. she/he is not "YOUR" agent... she/he is the listing agent....her/his job is to get highest and best price. She/he may be working in a dual agency or transactional agency position with you, depending on your state law.

This should have been explained to you at onset of your business relationship.

Learn your states' "agency" law, as to representation, even if you have to call around a real real estate offices.Who knows, in your
search for answers, you make find a good buyers agent.

Good Luck

REL

This message has been edited. Last edited by: real estate lady,

quote:

Originally posted by fairygoodmama: Our realtor doesn't think they will take "much" lower of an offer, but honestly I think it's overpriced by about $40,000-$60,000 at $280,000....

He/she is NOT YOUR REALTOR!!!

Glad you clarified the situation in one of your subsequent posts by saying that she/he is also the listing agent BUT I'm still not sure you understand since you continue to say that "I will get our realtor to include some of the things suggested here with our offer."

Once again, she/he is NOT YOUR REALTOR!!!

She/he is working for the seller, not you; probably had a hand in suggesting the listing price to the sellers and is NOT going to switch horses in mid-stream by now trying to persuade the sellers that they should accept $40,000 to 60,000 less no matter what evidence you submit re comparables or renovation costs.

If you really want to try to get this house, YOU MUST HAVE YOUR OWN AGENT WHO REPRESENTS ONLY YOU! Otherwise, move on as it is a lost cause. I understand this will be your first place so you have already learned the most important lesson in buying real estate - YOU MUST HAVE YOUR OWN AGENT! Good luck!

quote:

including mildew spots around the toilet! The bathrooms, kitchen, basement will all need to have some issues addressed, not just for cosmetic reasons.

carpet in a bathroom> eek! not only nasty it may harbor mold or hide structural damage. After comparing current comps before you make an offer hire YOUR personal licensed inspector.
IMO your "agent" has a conflict of interest. In this market it isn't uncommon for a buyer's initial offer to be 20% less than asking price.during negotiation, factor in repair costs based on contracor rate, not DIY

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tessa89,

Ok I absolutely agree that we need our OWN realtor that will represent us, but the reason I haven't yet is because I was under the impression that once a realtor has shown you a home, you must use that same realtor to put in your offer. She is actually on Vacation at the moment, so we have been using a different one to show us other houses. I honestly think she would understand I we chose to use our new one, but not sure if there is a
Code of ethics or something..

Thanks for all your thoughts!

Good thoughts all especially about the realtor representing both sides--not good.

Also I believe the buyer needs to separate what is cosmetic from what is real damage. White carpet in any shape may not be her choice but that is cosmetic. Are those mildew spots really mildew or is it poor cleaning or typical wear for the time period.

I am on both sides of this buyer/seller issue right now. As a seller (who has tried to maintain her property) it really hit me hard when the home inspection came up with some serious repairs that were basically hidden even from us. It has taken me days to come to grips with this and we are still trying to sort out with our agent which things are cosmetic and can be left off the repair list. (Deadline is tomorrow so we have to decide.)

On the other had I am seriously househunting and have found a strong contender. As a dedicated decorator I think well I would change this and this and this...) Should I just move on and find something else or learn to live with things that I didn't choose until I can gradually make changes that won't hit the pocketbook so much. And, of course, since I have not formally put a bid in on this home who knows what an inpector will find.

So step back. Get your own agent. (Remember that the sellers basically pay the agents through the comission split.) Try to be objective and not emotionable and don't get attached until the deal is finalized. (Now to take my own advice.)

quote:

Originally posted by fairygoodmama:
Ok I absolutely agree that we need our OWN realtor that will represent us, but the reason I haven't yet is because I was under the impression that once a realtor has shown you a home, you must use that same realtor to put in your offer. She is actually on Vacation at the moment, so we have been using a different one to show us other houses. I honestly think she would understand I we chose to use our new one, but not sure if there is a
Code of ethics or something..

Thanks for all your thoughts!

It is not just a code of ethics thing. In most states it's the law. When you had what was called your first substantive meeting with the agent - the point you seriously discussed the property, she should have provided you with information about agency in your state. I know every state has different rules on these matters, but I figure since I'm in SC and we have very strict guidelines, I'm guessing every other state is ahead of us.

If you have not signed anything with the listing agent you are free to find your own agent. Now this other agent who you've met - have they explained agency? Or are they working as a team member of the listing agent?

If this is how they are doing business - please do not use an agent with that brokerage - find another agent.

Good luck. When you find an agent discuss with them why you like the house and why you think it should be $X rather than $XX.

Gwenda, some interesting thoughts to ponder, thanks. First, when a realtor (especially the listing agent) tells you to keep your shoes on to see the house you know it's not a good sign. The sellers had had the house professionally cleaned, and as much as I actually like white carpet, it's really stained ALL throughout the house... The spots around the toilet are obviously from people not cleaning properly over the last few years, but it's not something I would say could be lived with. The sellers bought the house as a way to help family friends, and unfortunately had to evict them after a time. I dont know if the house was not aken care of on purpose, but it seems that way. In the basement, there are burn holes in the walls, and cabinetry has been partially torn down, so that it's half hanging there, crooked... The bathtub upstairs has a sliding door that won't close, and the tub tiles are peeling off an crumbling, and the finish of the tub is cracking and rusty.. There is a lot more that probably is cosmetic, but with just these things, I feel I am justified in putting an offer in well below what they are asking, especially after making a list of comparable sales in the area. After all, you wouldn't list your house for sale in this kind of condition, and expect the price you want based on what it would be worth if it had no issues whatsoever, right?

When we first started to talk with this Realtor, I really thought it would be better for us to use the realtor who was listing the house we wanted. Shows how much of a Noob I am... She did, however get us to sign what I thought was a Privacy agreement between her, myself and my husband... This could be what you are referring to, because at first everything was so new, I learned a lot of new words, and the true meaning of what she was getting us to sign was perhaps lost on me.. My husband's calling a realtor friend tomorrow to ask if this is the case (I can't find much information online for this kind of thing directly related to laws in Alberta, Canada), and if so, whether or not we can get out of it to find ourselves a true Buyer's Agent. I'll update this when I find out what's up.

Shame on that agent asking you to sign something without fully explaining it to you. Do you have a copy? Please review it and if you feel the agent asked you to sign it without fully explaining what it was and it is a buyer agency agreement - take it to her broker and explain how you did not realize what you were signing because it was not properly explained to you.

I don't see how a listing agent can ask you to sign a "buyers' exclusive agency agreement". Sounds like a conflict. What you may have signed is a "Transaction agent" form or a "Dual Agency" form depending on what your real estate law is of that state.

I would get a copy of what you signed, and don't ever sign anything you do not understand and get a copy of what you signed ALWAYS.

Like I suggested prior, you can call around to real estate offices.. find a buyers agent and think about starting over. Certainly you can explain your situation as the agents you interview can set you straight about your state real estate laws. They can also tell you what is procurring cause in your state.. showing the house or writing the contract.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: real estate lady,

"fairygoodmama," I'm glad that you decided to post here and hope you have received some helpful suggestions. Thanks for posting back!

Now, the real reason I'm posting now? Please take this advice in the way it is offered - you are not ready to buy your first home no matter how handy your dh is or how much potential you see in this particular property.

Trust me, both of those qualities will be a great advantage in the future but, for now, you need to learn the ins and outs of real estate first. Make sense? Hope so...

and, besides getting advice from the real estate experts here (not me, but some of the others) - I actually recommend buying Housebuying for Dummies - it really explained all the terms and the process, and was a good starting place....... I think Idaho is probably right, though - you probably want to learn a bit more before you move forward with a house that is going to have problems....

yes, this person is not working for you. You need your own agent, because this realtor is getting paid based on the sales price, and right now it's just him or her! You need to get your realtor in there, or at least tell this realtor you will be hiring your own realtor...then see what happens.

My thoughts on this house is that what you see up front is often NOTHING compared to whats hidden behind the walls and under the carpet.

For instance...why is the tile crumbling? Maybe there's a leak behind the wall or maybe the whole wall has been compromised and ready to fall in.

What's under the carpet in the bathroom. Maybe a leak or a totally rotted subfloor is being hidden by the (nasty) carpet.

We've bought and sold quite a few houses due to my husband being in the Air Force for 23 years and every house we bought had hidden problems that weren't evident until we moved in. And, yes...we had them all inspected before hand.

So, given that this house has obvious problems I'd be very careful about an offer. Stick to your guns and be very realistic about what it's going to cost you to fix it up. Even then I guarantee it will cost you MORE than you estimate.

Believe me...been there, done that.

FGM,

Haven't had time to post but have read your thread a time or two. Each time felt very strongly that this property simply isn't first-time buyer, first-home material. For one thing, I doubt your estimated discount of 40 - 60K is sufficient.

Like some others, I'm very concerned about the hidden damage. The inspector can only check out what's either visible or easily accessible so that won't cover you.

Every time, literally each & every time, I've been incredibly relieved after passing on a property for one reason or another. Always, many times now as an investor, a terrific, perfect property was right around the corner, waiting for me.

As always, JMHO. Best of luck!

ETA - meant to mention that it's worth taking some time to interview a few realtors and find the best, most competent person to represent you. BTW, don't worry about offending these sellers, if you do make an offer. If they haven't become realists after 176+ days on the market, they won't ever come around. Not worth losing your **$ to spare their feelings - JMHO.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RErocker,

I cringe, mutter and roll my eyes each time the property brothers come on. WHY..........? Why would you pay for a condemned, overpriced half-remodeled disaster? Why do they choose such over-the-top prices for appliances and fixtures and not update a bathroom? Why do they string the buyers along by promising them a quote-unquote price for the remodel and in the end it,s never NEVER what was originally quoted? WHY? Why do buyers keep falling for this? Why are they still even on the air??????