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I just got a brainstorm while internet surfing. I came across Lasagna gardening. I forgot all about that method. I would love to try it on a bed of grass I was hoping to decrease next spring. I originally thought I had to remove all the grass & weeds and then start the whole process. I read about lasagna gardening and want to try it.
2 Questions:
Do the leaves you layer have to be shredded first?
Can you use a layer of coffee filters as a 'layer' too? (I have about 4 bags of coffee filters I've been saving). I never have the time/patience to cut them up before putting into compost bin, so I just have been saving them. Gotta use some up. Can I use them as a layer in lasagna gardening? Thanks!!!

Wavy, this is the way "I" do it. I use newspapers that i have asked people to save for me. We are so far out in the sticks, newspapers aren't delivered. They are mailed, but there is no paper route.
No, your leaves don't have to be shredded first, BUT they decompose faster if they are. I never shred mine. I also have tons of pine trees around and just rake up pine needles and use that too.[if it's baled it's called pine straw]
Yes, you can use coffee filters as a layer. If it's paper, it will decompose. I never cut mine up to in the compost bin. I put the coffee grounds In the coffee filters, in the compost bin. I live out in the country and i'm not neat about compost, but then neither is Mother Nature!
The way i do my lasagna gardening is that I will scalp the lawn first, then spray the area with round up. I leave that for about a month, then I start my "lasagna". You don't have to do what I do, but I "enclose" the area in either brick or I have even used a tree that DH cut down, then cut in pieces to make a border for a raised bed. The first layer i put down will be chicken manure[ I wait until it's cold to clean out my chicken coop], then leaves, then newspaper and I wet it down to make sure it doesn't blow away. Then I put down a layer of pine needles, more leaves, then more newspaper and I wet it down again. I put a very large piece of chicken wire over the entire thing to make sure it won't blow away. When it starts to decompose, the level will go down and I start adding more leaves, then more pine straw, then newspaper, don't forget to water it. This is it until spring.
You will get all kinds of answers to your questions and alot of people will say I'm wrong, but let me say again...THIS IS HOW 'I' DO IT.
Good Luck!

Thanks, very interesting. I am sure there are several ways of making "lasagna" too, no? There is no right or wrong way. I have a lot of weeds. Maybe I should kill them first (didn't think of that!!!) I don't have chickens, so no chicken manure! LOL! Does this actually decompose by next spring? (completely or partially?) Can you plant in it or must you wait until it's completely decomposed? ('finished') I was planning on using cardboard (pizza boxes I saved) instead of newspaper, if I have enough of them. I cut up my coffee filters to make them decompose faster! I have found that often my compost in compost bin is not completely decomposed by the springtime. It usually takes longer than 5 months when I compost. I don't have chicken manure and that's a good thing to add. I would prefer NOT to buy anything and use whatever organic matter I have on hand!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Wavy,

The great thing about lasagna gardens is that there are many variations and you can work with what you have.

IMO it's not necessary to remove grass at all (altho that might depend on how tough the grass is), it's just part of the 'ingredients' that will decompose.

I use cardboard instead of newspapers.

Leaves can be left whole and filters can be layered.

One mistake I made was to not water one lasagna bed enough during a dry, hot summer so I gave up on it and just left it for that year. Next year it had all turned to nice soil altho was full of weeds. With my latest one where there was quack grass and weeds I weed whacked the grass low, watered thoroughly, then put down a thick layer of cardboard, then grass clippings, and finally shredded bark mulch so it looks OK. Still a few bits of grass coming through that I've been pulling. Next spring I'm going to add more cardboard where necessary and eventually that grass will be gone and the soil will be improved.

And I do it different still since I don't have leaves to use.
I do have an old pile of mostly decomposed trimming from pine trees that were cut down for lumber on our property...so sorta pine bark mulch.
I mark off the area I want to cover. I mow it as low as possible. If I'm going to use anything like landscape timbers, they go next. Then I put down a thin sheet of lime (my soil NEEDS it) and scatter alfalfa pellets all over (that's my fertilizer), Next is a layer of newspapers 6-12 sheets thick, wet as I go & put down that pine bark mulch over it about 4-6" thick. When it's all covered, it's done! I generally give it at least a month to kill stuff before I start planting anything, but over the winter would be great.
My coffee grounds & filters go into my compost just as they come out of the coffee pot!
I've used cardboard for the veggie garden or if I run out of newspapers.

Pat Lanza developed the concept of Lasagna Gardening so the best source of information about how to do it is from her.
http://ourgardengang.tripod.com/lasagna_gardening.htm
The leaves will be converted by the bacteria quicker if shredded. Coffee filters, made of paper, can be composted,

How big of an area are your lasagna gardens? Sounds so easy.

the first one I did was an iris bed. It was 10' by 8', the ones I have now are 10' by 6' and 15' by 5'. It really depends on how big a flower bed you want or how much you think you can handle.

Thanks Barb. This is so interesting. I do not have chicken but plenty of cow and horse manure, leaves, pineneedles. If I spray the area with roundup now I still need to wait a month before covering it up or would that only be in the summer months?

You don't really need to spray it now, since the weeds and grass will die out anyway.
Sounds like you have a lot of good stuff at your disposal. I would just weed eat the grass then put a layer of newspaper several inches thick to start with. I haven't had any experience with cow manure, but have with horse. the horse manure, needs to be composted for at least 6 months. i used some fresh about 4 years ago and found out why. Everytime I went out to my garden, I knew exactly where I had put the horse manure. There was clover and all sorts of weeds. The rest of the garden was beautiful, except for where I had put the uncomposted manure. Other than that, you are going to have a wonderful garden.

Thanks again Barb. Someone mentioned earthworms and it made me think that this isn't much different than when I was a little girl and my grandmother who loved to fish had a worm bed. It was framed with old barn boards and everything that would decompose would end up in there. Brings back so many fond and fun memories of her.

Wavy, thanks for starting the thread. Good Luck with your Lasagne garden.

Wavy,

Just in case you need another source, you can usually pick up old newspapers at the local printing office. They usually have old papers and don't mind sharing. One of my last garden beds was done with newspaper. They gave me a stack about 3 feet high.

Also appliance vendors will give you large pieces of cardboard. Just have to ask for it. The big box hardware store will share too.

Good luck on your garden.

If you cover the area with material more than 4 inches thick you probably will not need to put down newspaper or cardboard which is only to block a plants access to sunlight which all plants need to grow. Lanza says she covered the area with newspaper, over some lime (be sure to have a soil test done so you know whether there is a need and how much would be needed) and then alternated layers of material to severa; inches deep. The newspaper was not needed in reality.
Peat moss would only be needed if you did not have access to tree leaves. Why spend your money on something with no nutrients when a much better material is readily available for free?

Is this the best time of year to start the lasagna garden when the leaves are falling?

The rain and wind season have started where I live. Is there anything besides chicken wire you can use to keep the wind from blowing the lasagna bed away?

still tryin, the best time of year to start any type of garden is when you have the time, energy, and supplies. with the abundance of fallen leaves now is a very good time to start a garden.

Still tryin, Some more ideas?
If you have any bricks or large rocks lying around that could help hold down the papers. Or open up large cardboard boxes flat, and peg them down with landscape wire staples. Also cheap nylon rope/twine going back and forth (zig zag) across the area to stakes could help hold it from blowing also.

I was planning on putting large rocks on top to keep it from blowing all over the place. If that wasn't enough, I could always use some random concrete blocks that I found around this yard. If you have extra tiles laying around, that would work too!

I don't understand why one would have to use rocks or anything to hold down the paper. If you use paper or cardboard you cover it with other organic 'ingredients' and dampen it to prevent it blowing away.

I prefer to use cardboard as often am trying to eradicate quack grass. Also supposedly earthworms love cardboard and I want to do everything I can to encourage them. The layer of cardboard with lots of organics on top makes a nice consistently damp environment for worms and the soil food web which are the mostly "beneficial micro-organisms such as fungi, bacteria, protozoa, and nematodes" found in nutritious soils.

Quote taken from this site: http://soilfoodweb.com.au/inde...icle&id=46&Itemid=54

It can really depend on the wind speeds and open exposure in your garden area, as to whether it can blow away or not.

Could not do this lasagna thing in our mountain home, as wind speeds can be 80mph gusts in the winter! If it is not nailed down, it could be found in the next county.

Covering Quack Grass with either newspaper or cardboard will deprive the blades of access to sunlight and those grass blades will then die, but the roots will stay viable and will grow faster in the environment created by the paper.
Earthworms like the conditions, cool and moist, reated by the newspaper and cardboard not the paper itself which has no nutriitional value to them.

quote:

Originally posted by KimmSr:
Covering Quack Grass with either newspaper or cardboard will deprive the blades of access to sunlight and those grass blades will then die, but the roots will stay viable and will grow faster in the environment created by the paper.
Earthworms like the conditions, cool and moist, reated by the newspaper and cardboard not the paper itself which has no nutriitional value to them.

Kimm, you might read this article about using cardboard in vermiculture. According to this author worms do like eating cardboard. Scroll down about 2/3 of the page to #3: http://www.jetcompost.com/burrow/3bedding.htm

About the quack grass, here's a post from this site: http://forums.organicgardening...1078301/m/1271034017 Does it look familiar?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: joyluck,

Joy,
Had you read Kimm's earlier post at your link he's consistent.

quote:

I have not seen any " bad juju eco karma " any time I have used cardboard under the mulches I have put down in all the years (25 or more) that I have been doing that. Cardboard, newspaper, or any other mulch material can create conditions that things such as Quack Grass like really well, however, cool, moist, nutrient rich soil.

You gardeners here are a funny lot, trying to out do each other and play gotcha. It can be entertaining at times.

quote:

Originally posted by Sparky:
You gardeners here are a funny lot, trying to out do each other and play gotcha. It can be entertaining at times.

Sparky, always happy to entertain but I'm not trying to "play gotcha" at all. I expect to be corrected if I post erroneous info but if my info is correct I will defend it. And when others post erroneous info I will correct them.

Joy, I have yet to learn about anyone that vermicomposts that uses just shredded paper or cardboard in their bins. Since paper has no nutrient value anyone that did would probably find that their worms would die of starvation. Using paper as bedding is not a problem but not as your only source of nutrients, and the same applys to laying either paper or cardboard down on soil. The paper creates a cool, moist environment that the earthworms find to their liking and if there is a source of nutrients they will stay and multiply, but the paper is not what they like to eat anymore then you would eat cardboard.
Newspaper and/or cardboard will suppress the top growth of Quack Grass for a year or two, depending on how long that paper lasts, but because of the moist soil conditions created the rhizomes will grow and as soon as possible send up blades of grass. Wimpier grass species, such as Blue Grass, Perennial Rye Grass, or the Fescues will simply die off, roots and all, when covered by paper.

if you want happy worms in your lasagna, use a layer of used coffee grounds next to the soil covering....

my lasagna worked really good.... I started in late fall, tried to plant in spring, but found that the stuff was still too 'airy' and dried out too fast for the plants to be happy... also was still pretty acidic... so I added some more goodies and waited till fall again... it was perfect!.... the few plants I HAD to plant before then, I cut holes for that would allow them to get to the base layer of soil and that worked fine... things like shrubs and azaleas...

you can consider anything thrown on the area, a 'layer'.... doesn't have to be an inch thick everywhere or anything like that.... I made it a point to buy a bag of something every time I was at Lowe's.... black kow, soil conditioner, pine bark mulch, and throw that on ...add another layer of leaves.... I used up the left over fertilizer granules, old potting soil, the dregs in the compost pile, coffee grounds, shredded bills, more newspaper, shredded...and another layer of leaves...... if it was organic, it went on the pile..... after the last layer, one morelayer of leaves, then one of pine bark mulch and at that point it was about eight inches deep.... I kept it moist until freeze....never moved....

come spring, it was about four inches of the nicest stuff!!!.... but very 'light'...a few things I planted had a hard time getting enuff water....so, as above....waited till fall for the main plantings....shrubs were fine...

there's no reason to use peat....ever.... so don't bother with it... just use those great leaves that are everywhere... this is when you become the 'thief' and snag everyone's bagged leaves from the curb....or offer to rake the neighbors' leaves for them!!...

and all this worry over what to do with the grass?... it dies, folks....even the lousy wire grass here, didn't have a chance!!!....*bermuda, devil grass!!!
if there's one that can survive, more power to it!!!.... I don't have that kind here, tho....

once you do this and see how well it works, you'll never dig sod again!!!....

This article tells you how to get rid of quack grass. I think it kind of backs up Kimm's position.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/y.../h507quackgrass.html

I'm not going to argue with you, Kimm about the value of cardboard in vermicomposting altho in the link I posted the author states it's value and says he has very large healthy worms as a result of them eating it. I know in areas I've used cardboard under mulch it's gone within a couple of years and needs replacing.

Sparky, here's a quote from the link you posted "Without photosynthesis the plant will not be able to store food reserves in the rhizomes and will eventually die." Which kinda backs up what I am saying about cardboard and mulch as a method to eliminate quackgrass. Not saying I won't have to attend to the edges of that area and remove the grass *if* it appears there. Noxious weeds usually require more than one method for complete elimination but I still stand by what I said and have done. IMO this method reduces the amount of quackgrass one has to deal with in a large area.