Message Boards

Okay, this is our new-to-us and forever custom built house that we bought in 2004 but we're having some flittering re lights and two have shut down altogether. One in the master bath and one in the kitchen over-head pot lights.

Of course hiring an electrician is the obvious answer but I am going to feel really stupid for paying that price IF it is just a few loose wires ~ so any suggestions?

I do know how to cut off the power to the entire house at the fuse box but not sure what to do after that? Remove the outlet covers and see if some wires have worked their way loose? Help? Is there a way to know which wires should be attached to other wires?

Sounds like I am an idiot ~ maybe I am ~ hope the rest of you are smarter than I! I'm thinking simply to pull all the power tomarrow and then re-attach any loose wires I see. Good idea or not? Let me know...

I assume you checked the bulbs?

You should know what circuit breaks works each area. (if you don't put that on your to-do list) Once you cut the power I always use a circuit tester to be sure. When this has happened to us it has been the little knob thingy that holds the wires together has worked loose. Make sure it is the right size before you reattach.

You also may want to check the switch wires.

Maybe Sparky or someone else will be along with better ideas.

It would be better to post this question in the building section. I don't normally surf into cleaning and organizing.

Anyway, now that I found it. Have you checked to see if the bulbs are within the rating for the fixture? If you put too high a wattage bulb in the fixture the overheat switch will cut the light off, 10 minutes later when it cools down it comes back on until it overheats, rinse, repeat. Try a smaller wattage par bulb, or a CFL or LED par bulb. I just bought a LED par bulb for a burned out can light in my bonus room. I have 7 cans in the room so it will be a while before I replace them all with LED's at $25 a pop. But, it dims fairly well, lights up quickly and should last the rest of my life. The energy savings are significant. I'm not a fan of CFL par bulbs they take too long to get to full light and the "dimmable" ones are less than impressive.

While you're looking at the fixture make sure they are IC rated, that is insulation contact if they are in the ceiling with insulation in it, such as an attic. There should be a sticker visible from the room that says if they are IC rated.

Thanks, metwo and Sparky, for your suggestions. I'll try to respond to each. I do know which circuit breaker controls each area in the house. For example, the lights in the kitchen that don't work are 6 pot lights in the kitchen area that are operated from either a switch at the back door or one on the other side of the kitchen. On the same circuit is a pot light over the kitchen sink and numerous outlets for kitchen appliances which are functioning perfectly so don't think it is the circuit.

Same with the master bathroom - it has a triple outlet for the fan (works), pot light over the tub (works) and lights (six of them) over the mirror which are the ones that don't work so, again, I don't think it's the circuit.

I've checked all the bulbs (both kitchen and bathroom) and they work fine elsewhere. For example I switched the kitchen ones to the one over the sink and they work. I switched the bathroom ones to the other bathroom and they work.

They are also the right type and rating as the home inspector checked that specifically when we bought 8 years ago and we have used the same ones ever since as the previous owner left us two cases of bulbs when we bought the place and we haven't run out yet!

So, by process of elimination, I think some wires must have come loose inside the outlet box but I'm just not sure what to look for when I get the outlet cover off (haven't done that yet) ~ maybe it will be obvious? We'll see or maybe I should just bite the bullet and call an electrician. Just hate to have someone make a 30 mile RT (we live out in the boonies) for a 10 second repair job if it's just loose wires!

Thanks for any help, though, I appreciate it!

My DH is a retired electrical inspector and I asked him your question. He said contact an electrician because this is not a job for someone who is not familiar with electrical work. You have done the basics by checking the bulbs and circuit breakers, now have a pro check the wiring. He has plenty of horror stories about DIYers who thought they knew what they were doing. He asked if you had rats or mice that might have chewed on some wires but he also said it could be wires that have come loose. Please have it checked out before it causes a fire.

Thanks for taking the time to post a reply, Timetosew.

I think your DH is right - time to call in a professional although I am going to kick myself IF it is just wires that have become loose. No, no rats or mice here ~ six indoor cats have made sure of that!

But, the truth of the matter is, since I don't know what the wiring should look like, how in the world would I know how to re-connect them in the right way if that is the problem? I only posted this inquiry because I thought maybe someone would tell me, it's simple, take off the outlet cover and connect wire A to wire B ~ color coded, maybe?

I'm thinking it probably is really simple but I'm not willing to take that chance. Calling in the troops on Monday a/k/a a professional electrician even if I look like a fool...

quote:

time to call in a professional although I am going to kick myself IF it is just wires that have become loose.

As a longtime DIYer, bite the bullet: call an electrician. If one loose connection there may be others.
Better to feel like a fool than become toast!

Idaho,
Do the lights cycle on and off individually? Or does the entire circuit go out at once? If they are cycling on and off individually I still think the problem is the thermal protection circuit on the fixture. If that is the case, try an LED PAR light in one of the fixtures. If it stops cycling on and off for whatever reason the thermal protection circuit is tripping. If you have the right sized bulbs it may be that you don't have IC contact lights and the insulation is too close to the fixture.

The challenge with checking the wiring on new construction cans is it is very difficult to get to the electrical box inside the ceiling to look at the connections. If you have access from the attic you can look at it from above. I like old work cans better because they can be easily removed from the ceiling unlike their new work brethren.

quote:

Same with the master bathroom - it has a triple outlet for the fan (works), pot light over the tub (works) and lights (six of them) over the mirror which are the ones that don't work so, again, I don't think it's the circuit.

Idaho,
The bathroom lights, are these a "lightbar" type fixture? And if so are they all out, all the time? If so, it could be a bad connection in the fixture, not hard to fix. If one or two of the lights are out it could be a loose wirenut inside or the contact in the middle of the socket is mashed down and not making contact with the bulb.

Sparky, Thanks for the suggestions; I'll try to clarify re the kitchen and bathroom as I think they are distinct problems - separate from one another.

Re the bathroom: Yes, it is a "lightbar" type fixture operated via a triple outlet. The switch for the fan (works) and the switch for the pot light (works)~ both have a crisp snap when you flip them on or off. The lights over the mirror (8 of them) all quit working at the same time when the switch suddenly became "spongy" or "squishy" - no discernable click on or off. The switches are the press up/down type, not the type that sticks out if that makes sense.

Re the kitchen 6 pot lights ~ they don't cycle on and then off at all. I noticed the problem a week or so ago when I would flip the switch and it didn't seem to quite "catch" and no lights (none of the 6) would come on. Then if I hit it again, it would catch and work fine - no problems with lights going on or off. A few days after that it simply quit working at all which is why I think there may be a loose wire in the switch?

Appreciate the help....

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Idaho Resident,

That sounds more like a bad switch than loose wires. Switches do go bad and need replacement sometimes. Double and triple switches can have one part go out while the other parts still work. If that's what it is, it shouldn't take much time to replace the switches. Good luck.

Thanks for the response, Timetosew. I think the bathroom situation is, as you say, a switch gone bad since the other two switches on the same triple outlet are working perfectly.

IMHO, a loose wire is more likely the culprit in the kitchen but, I want everyone to know that I will be careful and will definitely call in a licensed electrician IF the problem isn't obvious when I remove the outlets on Monday...

Thanks for all suggestions and I'm not really being cheap. It's just a major hassle to get service individuals out to where we live - usually a minimum of one and one-half hours RT - so if it is something simple that I can do on my own - I feel stupid for wasting 2 hours of their time for something that takes about 2 minutes to repair. We'll see...

Idaho,
I agree with Time. From your description both sound like bad switches. If you are reasonably handy it is a DIY project. Just make sure you turn the power off at the breaker.

Idaho, Sparky is right. I've changed out switches before & I'm certainly NOT an electrician. As long as the power source is off you should be good!

Thanks everyone ~ I am going with the idea of replacing the switches BUT... groan ... I will have to make a trip "into town" to buy the replacements ~ something I avoid at all costs.

But, it sounds like it is necessary this time so I'll do it but it might take a week or two. I can live without the kitchen lights as well as those in the master bath but, you have all tried so hard to help me figure out how to fix the problem, that I figure I should do the same.

Yep, biting the bullet here and making plans to visit a big box store for the necessary parts but, don't hold your breath in the meanwhile ~ I'll post back when the objective is achieved!
Might be a couple of weeks....

It does sound as though the switch may be the issue. Hope it leads to a cure and easy success!

But just to repeat something Sparky mentioned above.
We had a hall ceiling fixture, where the bulb would randomly go out, then come back on. It also had a 3 way switch, but had worked fine until I replaced the 75 watt bulb with a 60. Then we had the random on/off.

After trying other bulbs, I turned off the power, and bent the little metal contact strip in the socket, so it would make better contact with the screwed in bulb. That was the problem, problem solved!

Idaho Resident, was just wondering if you had your problem fixed yet.

Thanks for asking, Timetosew. I have to admit that I haven't done anything yet to replace the faulty switches or remedy the problem should it be something else since I last posted. Snow came about December 10th and hasn't melted yet so, to be honest, I haven't ventured out since unless it was absolutely necessary. And the nearest Home Depot/Lowes is a good 3 hour RT drive in the best of conditions and we live WAY out in the boonies....

I will eventually get those switches fixed but for now? I'm staying home-bound by choice - spring will come soon, right? Well, not soon, but at least by April and I can live with the lighting situation until then if necessary!

Idaho,
You can always order the switches on line, alternatively, don't you have a small store somewhere close by? I've seen a lot of small convenience stores in the boonies with a small household repairs section that usually includes some basic electrical components.