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I received the following email from Jonathan in answer to my Facebook message.


"Hi, Mary. The budgets and timelines you see on PB are solely for the 3-4 rooms you see us reveal. In most cases, we actually finish the entire house. Hopefully one of these days the network will want us to show that.

As for budgets and how the home owners pay for it...every family is different. These are all real couples that are really paying for it which is why you see real emotion. The production company kicks in about $10k cash toward the reno plus about another $15k or more in freebies like Hunter Douglas Blinds, Appliances or materials. They don't pay Drew a commission nor do they pay for me or my design team. So it all adds up to a pretty big savings.

There is also quite often so much going on that the network doesn't want audiences to have information overload...so they don't always mention that we usually reuse at least 50% of the families existing furniture and accessories. I may have to paint or reupholster...and it may be fine as is.

Hopefully that helps answer your questions. Thanks for watching."

Signed: The Facebook Team

I am so glad to have heard from Jonathan. I had really given up since my Facebook question had moved so far down the list. I hope this clears up some of our questions.

Marylee

Reply was interesting, I wish that the Property Brothers would tell HGTV that they need to provide more information to its viewers and not let our imaginations go amok.
I always suspected that they renovated what what we saw. and that is fine.
Is what the program intimates bothered me.

The above message is also on Jonathan's Facebook page.

Marylee

Hi Marylee,

I'm not on FB but did look previously (the other day) and couldn't find your question. Not trying to be difficult but it doesn't appear (to me, anyway) that he answered it. Besides that, I don't see any new information here.

Specifically, IIRC, we asked if the PB participants were financing their furniture purchases. We all understand that they make their own, personal arrangements with lenders or furnish cash to make the deal. He could have answered in a generality, e.g. "Most of our buyers contribute sufficient cash to furnish their new homes." - if that's the case.

He mentioned they typically reuse their previous homes' furniture for approximately 50% of the home. Well, they've already explained that during numerous episodes. How about the other 50%? After paying all of the required federal and state income taxes on the total prizes awarded the participants, including the cash, retail value of merchandise, the value of the design services and any other benefits received, the 10K cash would not come even close to furnishing 50% of a home, IMHO. They don't show them using flea market finds on the show, either. Doubtful that many people would be skilled enough at DOD to design and furnish the remainder of the home with the remaining cash, if any.

Don't know if you asked about the remaining issues he mentioned. It feels like a smokescreen, IMHO. Why would Drew receive a commission? He's not the realtor. The participants would be responsible for paying any costs of the real estate transaction because their casting call indicates they're already in escrow or previously purchased the home. (In the U.S., sellers pay commissions, in any event.) Same thing for him - he's not paid as the designer because he's not the designer. To the extent the participants receive any design services from the PB design team, here in the U.S. they would be required to pay income tax at the design services' face (possibly a higher) value.

WRT the free design services plus the cash and other items received by the families, that's all publicly available information. (Incidentally, here in the U.S., it could be more expensive - because of the tax liability - to receive and pay tax on brand name items as opposed to negotiating discounts on generic goods.)

Don't know if you asked about their completion of the entire home. Not sure if it really matters, to me. If what they say is true, why don't they post photos of the remainder of the homes on their website? Why hasn't even 1 participant (to the best of my knowledge) provided those photos? Nondisclosure clauses?

IIRC, someone's friend posted once and mentioned that the family was extremely happy with their first floor. What about the rest of their home? JMHO but in this day and age, I find it surprising that I've never heard about anyone posting photos or praising their work on the remainder of their homes. Just sayin' (If anyone's seen them anywhere, please provide a link.)

Other than the token camera shots, he's using that paint brush and doing that upholstery?? More info would overload the viewers? Sorry. HGTV doesn't pretend to be PBS. It's meant to entertain - not educate, IMHO. He and his brother are actors, writers and producers - and occasional RE investors. It's up to their viewers. If they don't care about the manufactured drama, no worries.

Be kind, all. It's JMHO and YMMV, as usual.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bballdays,

I believe the info received from Jonathan indicates that the cost of the furniture does not come from the mortgage money. I thought this was what some of us were concerned about.

The message I put on the Facebook was entered on Monday so it is pretty far down the list. I think at least 6 or 7 pages back. Since I was writing on Facebook, I tried to choose my words and I probably didn't cover all the questions everyone had. I didn't want to overload.

I was very pleased and happy to get an email in answer to my message. I thought others would be glad, too.

There has been so much negativity and I have been negative myself, but I have tried to change things. I have sent emails, gone on Facebook and Chat Now. I have gotten responses and answers. I imagine that everyone is getting tired of my saying how to do these things and giving links to make it easier, but it works. You can get your comments and questions to the network. Of course, this is MHO.

Marylee

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mriley,

Marylee, please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see any explanation in the response you posted above WRT the participants possibly financing furniture purchases. Were we supposed to believe the cash covers it? I had briefly touched on tax liability but edited it again, as follows, when it occurred to me that perhaps that was the implication. I know construction lenders wouldn't finance it, if they and/or their construction inspectors knew about it. Can't help but wonder why he didn't answer the question.

I edited my message because I previously thought it mentioned the participants' income tax liability (in the U.S. - don't know about Canada) on not only the cash received but retail value of any merchandise plus the value of any services received. Unless their participants can work some serious DOD magic, I don't believe they'd be able to furnish 50% of a home. The show doesn't use flea market finds so they'd be responsible for any new items depicted on the aired portion of the home. I don't know anyone who could furnish 50% of a home on 10K, let alone whatever's remaining of that 10K after paying taxes.

I also expanded my previous comments on his claim that the participants are receiving free realtor commissions. Their casting calls indicate the buyers are already in escrow and/or previously purchased their property. Therefore, Drew was not the realtor involved and wouldn't be entitled to any commissions. Besides that, sellers (not buyers) in the U.S. pay commissions. I'm sure he would have mentioned it, if this was a US/Canada difference. In all likelihood, they would have edited the U.S. version.

Incidentally, I checked for your question as soon as I saw your message the other day and paged down several times but couldn't locate it. I've sent numerous e-mails to HGTV myself but my spouse won't agree to FB for privacy reasons. I had previously reviewed multiple PB casting calls plus the production company's website and their personal website.

Thanks.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bballdays,

I agree that many questions were not answered. What I learned was the they do receive 15,000 , but not all of it is in cash, some is for appliances, accessories etc. Of course, we are not privy of the labor costs involved because neither in all probability has a crew.
but is hired out.
Yes that money received at least in the US would be taxable, don't know in Canada.
I guess they did say that the reveal shows what they reno. and it also states that do sometimes finish the rest of the house.
I would like to know if the money provided except the ones that companies pay for appliances etc I believe is 10,000 is allowed to be used in the renovation. I cannot believe that if they don't do the entire house, the homeowners wouldn't want to apply this to complete the reno, and made these poor soul buy furniture that I am sure is not one of their priorities.
Yes, there are still many questions unanswered. but we did get some.

Tried to compare this info to their current Austin, TX casting call, rker but it had disappeared. Apparently they've filled up that season. Strange that they removed the info from their web posting. Saw it only recently and the other HGTV programs leave the info online. Any reason they didn't want us to verify this information?

Sounds like at least 35K* additional income subject to income tax. Assuming a very conservative combined fed and state rate of 20%, that's $7K. In our state, we're required to pay use tax (same rate as state + local sales tax) on merchandise, if a merchant failed to withhold it. At 9% currently (increases expected soon), that's another $1,400, leaving $1,600 to furnish 50% of a home, if the participants use the 10K to furnish the home. It'd be $3K, w/o use tax, assuming that conservative 20% rate. (In our progressive income tax system, when additional income is added, taxpayers are pushed into higher brackets so 20%, combined fed & state, is fairly low.)

If anyone's interested, here's the answer to my question regarding sales commissions in Canada:

Buying RE in Canada

They're paid by the seller so no savings there, even if Drew was the realtor and the homes hadn't been purchased in advance. BTW, is he affiliated with the Toronto RE board? (They're from Vancouver but live in Vegas.) How about Austin? Don't understand why they need to continue the Drew as realtor and Jonathan as designer/contractor myth.

I'll continue watching for the RE p*orn, ff'ing through all the extraneous chitchat. (Anyone have a link to any participant photos of the homes' remaining, unaired rooms? Love to see them.) Perhaps tptb should reclassify this from reality tv to drama.

Have a great weekend, all. As usual JMHO, YMMV.


*"about?" 10K cash, 15K merchandise, estimated 10K design services (S101 currently contributes 15K in services for their single room renos so 10K's very reasonable.)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bballdays,

What all of this proves, is that credibility in this program is out the window. If we only see it as entertainment then I guess is fine, To me the minute that they try to sell all of the program as what they do to a house to make it a dreamhouse, is pretty close to fraud.
Not on the part of the Property Brothers, but on the part of HGTV.
I imagine, that they have consulted all of this with their attorneys, just i case that they are called to explain.
It seems to me that they could simple do the renos without all of the irrealistics expectations and then try to sell it as the truth.
I don't care to be understimated.

That's my point exactly, rker. I don't understand why they can't simply be honest. Not sure that I buy their explanation about the network - it seems like their answer every time they want to dodge something.

Jonathan must be as busy as a 1-armed paper hanger if he can reno 4 properties completely, simultaneously, in the 4-6 weeks they're always promising the participants. (These programs typically shoot 4-6 episodes at once. BTW, no offense to 1-armed paper hangers.) If their participant homeowners are so thrilled with their whole house renos - that's terrific! Let's see the photos!

We all know they're actors. They started at very young ages. Their father was an actor - it's the family business. IMHO, their fans won't enjoy PB any less, if they simply acknowledge that fact. Incidentally, they could drop all those canned lines at the same time and work on their writing skills. (They claim to be writers, also.)

I doubt they need to worry about their attorneys because PB's classified as reality television. It'd still be nice, if they simply called it what it is - drama.

Be careful, rker - don't get viewer overload! It reminds me of that Jack Nicholson line, "You can't handle the truth!"

You are quite correct, sometimes I get angry when I see some of these programs, because I find them insulting.
I wouldn't mind them if they didn't try to make them sound as if they were thre real deal.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bballdays:
He could have answered in a generality, e.g. "Most of our buyers contribute sufficient cash to furnish their new homes." - if that's the case.

He mentioned they typically reuse their previous homes' furniture for approximately 50% of the home. Well, they've already explained that during numerous episodes. How about the other 50%? After paying all of the required federal and state income taxes on the total prizes awarded the participants, including the cash, retail value of merchandise, the value of the design services and any other benefits received, the 10K cash would not come even close to furnishing 50% of a home, IMHO.
More than likely the Home Owner (HO) will not have to pay taxes until the following tax season, which means they are using the full amt awarded.
They don't show them using flea market finds on the show, either. Doubtful that many people would be skilled enough at DOD to design and furnish the remainder of the home with the remaining cash, if any. Also, if you watch the show. Before the end of each show they give you or show the price of each item they purchase. The rest is HO furniture that is refinished. The show is only an hour long, they cant show you every single detail.

Why would Drew receive a commission? He's not the realtor. The participants would be responsible for paying any costs of the real estate transaction because their casting call indicates they're already in escrow or previously purchased the home. (In the U.S., sellers pay commissions, in any event.)Yes, in the US sellers pays their agent a commission but the buyer pays thier commission to their agent also, (unless buyer ask the seller to cover commission in the purchase and sales agreement). The buyer's agent in most cases have a finders fee(commission). And Drew is a Agent and would charge a fee if it wasnt for the show. Same thing for him - he's not paid as the designer because he's not the designer. Jonathan is a licensed contractor, if you hired a contractor to do your home you would have to pay them for their services and he is not charging. In 2004 they founded Scott Real Estate Inc., a company that oversees the sales and construction of residential and commercial projects. They do the design and should therefore get paid. These are things the HO is saving a lot on, and they are not cheap

WRT the free design services plus the cash and other items received by the families, that's all publicly available information. (Incidentally, here in the U.S., it could be more expensive - because of the tax liability - to receive and pay tax on brand name items as opposed to negotiating discounts on generic goods.) I agree, but the HO may or may not be aware of the tax liability they will have until they file their tax return

Don't know if you asked about their completion of the entire home. Not sure if it really matters, to me. If what they say is true, why don't they post photos of the remainder of the homes on their website? Why hasn't even 1 participant (to the best of my knowledge) provided those photos? Nondisclosure clauses? I agree here also, since the show is not long enough for this, it would be nice if they post the entire house online and the final cost the entire project.


Other than the token camera shots, he's using that paint brush and doing that upholstery?? More info would overload the viewers? Sorry. HGTV doesn't pretend to be PBS. It's meant to entertain - not educate, IMHO. exactly, it is there to entertain -not educate, which is why they dont want it to be information overload. It is not mean to be a tutorial on how to renovate your home. Alot of people would like the tutorial, including myself.

I just think you are being too critical for a show that is meant to entertain and inspire ideas. Its not there to educate you on how to replace your general contractor that would give you an estimation on your home and charge you for their services

This message has been edited. Last edited by: shay32,

Hi, Shay. Welcome to the Message Board. I hope you will visit and post often.

I read your post with interest. I originally received the email from Jonathan and I felt he had answered some of the concerns regarding Property Brothers. Marylee

So, Marylee, if someone deliberately makes false statements (including obvious errors of omission) to the public, as the bros did (IMHO) in their statement to you, they're being responsive to the fans??

As a professional, I have more years of experience than the two of them combined, in all of these areas. Skimming the above post by shay32, it appears to be entirely incorrect.

Most importantly, I sincerely hope nobody takes shay32's tax advice - to simply pocket the cash and worry about the consequences later. They'll be in for a rude awakening when the taxing authorities educate them about quarterly estimates, interest and penalties. How many people do you know who can come up with federal and state income taxes plus misc taxes on 40K or possibly even more of additional income - between the merchandise, free services and cash - if they haven't properly reserved the 10K provided by the production company to obviously defer those taxes?

Funny, I've never heard any of the posters in this particular thread request tutorials on either home renovation or hiring a gc. Given that Jonathan makes construction errors basically weekly IMHO, I hope anyone needing that tutorial contacts a true professional instead of a couple of former underwear models (both of them, IIRC - Jon for sure) and a current magician. (That's right - if you want to review their backgrounds and experience, let's discuss all of it, instead of omitting key facts, shay32.) If Jonathan's truly an experienced gc, you'd think he and his two brothers (yes, it's two, BTW) could generate a few accurate lines to describe each episode's construction drama.

With all due respect, me thinks Drew and Jonathan have some swamp land they want to sell both of you - along with the rest of their fans. (Incidentally, I've watched each and every one of the episodes aired in the U.S. for the RE p*orn only.)

As the OP indicated, if you want to be entertained by them, no problem - but don't make them out to be more than what they are, snake oil salesmen, IMHO.

P.S. Wouldn't have bothered posting but again, IMHO, it's extremely irresponsible to promulgate erroneous tax advice - unless you're a trained professional.

ETA: As usual, my post is JMHO. Can't help but notice that shay32's post (as of 3/18, 10:27 a.m.) doesn't include that qualifier so apparently we can accept all of his/her post as fact. Everyone believe it's responsible to simply ignore potential tax liability on 40K or so and spend the **$ on new furniture?? Willing to cover the mb readers' penalties and interest, shay32??

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SurfNow,

I am getting tired of all this. I am someone who tries to help when I can. Maybe I just didn't do good enough for some of you. I almost forgot, this is just my opinion.

Some people keep finding fault with things and if you really want answers you can go to Jonathan's Facebook Page or go to the Chat Now site or email at Contact Us. Marylee

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mriley,

Hey, come on, don't get discouraged, at least you were able to provide some answers to the questions that we all had.
Yes, they clarified some, and raised more questions. but nevertheless, yes, thank you for what you let all of us see.
Some will always agree with you, and others won't, that is the name of the game.
I have been chastized so many times in this message board than I care to count.
So, don't worry, keep up the postings. and let your opinions prevail.

rker, Thank you for your message. I really was discouraged when I posted. Now...last night I was reading Jonathan's Facebook and one of the posters raised a question. I will put her question and Jonathan's answer here. (I guess I just don't know when to stop.)

Question: "You mentioned that the budget and timelines that we see on PB are only for the rooms showcased. So what happens if the homeowners do not have the budget to reno the rest of the rooms? And do you also make the exteriors of the dwellings look nice, too? Some of those exteriors look kind of yucky."

Jonathan's Answer: "Any of the homes that are in really bad shape...the homeowners budgeted to do everything before they purchased. If the rooms are okay, but just boring...sometimes the owners will decide to wait for a year or so before they update.

Fortunately, most of the owners have us finish everything now...so they can get started enjoying it right away."

I put this here for what it's worth...not much new info. But it does show that there are others out there who want to know about the workings of this show.

Another poster asked how long the homeowners get to decide on a house. Jonathan said they get as long as they need.

Marylee

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mriley,

rker. You gave me new inspiration and I went into Jonathan's Facebook and ask him another question yesterday and SURPRISE...he answered me already. The question and answer are 18 hours ago right now..for those who want to go there.

For those who don't go there, I will give you my question and Jonathan's answer.

"Hi, Jonathan. I have a question about PB. When your homeowners receive $10k cash toward the reno and another $15k in freebies, what about the taxes on these amounts? With the added expense of paying for a home, are these taxes going to prove to be a hardship for the homeowners? I guess I am thinking about the people who win big items and then can't afford to pay the taxes on them."

Jonathan's Answer: "There is a lot more involved behind the scenes which isn't as interesting...so the viewers don't get to see.
No, the families are not put into hardship with taxes on any of the materials that we get at a discount or for my services that are provided for free. It's a completely different ball game when it comes to winning a lottery and being charged tax on the prize. Probably all questions for an accountant or tax attorney, but think of it this way...I can choose to volunteer my time for anybody at anytime, and uncle sam can't come back on me for that. Also, production credits their amount directly to the trades or suppliers...so the homeowners still receive a bill but for a discounted amount. If there is a sale on at Home Depot and you get 50% off...you don't have to pay tax on that extra amount.
Hopefully that helps...good questions. I've never had that one before."

I don't know how much this really tells us, but here it is.

Marylee

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mriley,

quote:

...so the homeowners still receive a bill but for a discounted amount. If there is a sale on at Home Depot and you get 50% off...you don't have to pay tax on that extra amount.

Ok, so here is the glitch. even at 50% of the full price, the IRS will still see that as income from a source other than your work. You do have to included in your taxes. and you will be taxed according to the % that the IRS has stated for item won on TV etc. Is not money but is an item that has an intrinsic value. Is just like winning a car. you will pay taxes on that car.
I believe that there are minimums but I am not a tax person, but I do know that any winnings from a TV show are taxable.
NOw, if HGTV would pay directly to the providers and you don't see any money or an item provided to you. Yes, I imagine that it would be difficult for the IRS to tax you. But again, I am not a tax person.

Hi rker, I don't have time to go into all of the issues this evening but as a professional, I can confirm you were on the right track.

Prizes and awards are fully taxable. If they exceed $600, the winner receives a 1099 for the full amount, including cash plus the full value of goods and services. In fact, if you review bb's post above, he/she was absolutely correct and made some excellent points about PB and how the participants would be taxed.

Is mriley a moderator on this board? She was thrilled to continue this thread when she believed shay32 had stomped on another poster. When I came along and only got involved because I was concerned about mb users mistakenly believing they can simply ignore paying taxes without penalties & interest, she demanded to stop this thread and instructed everyone to go to Jonathan for answers. (Oops, guess I wasn't supposed to post.) Why would anyone take tax advice from an underwear model??

I don't understand why mriley apparently takes everything personally. I reviewed this thread and the previous one. Nobody asked her to post on FB. To the extent the bros lied in their response - and they did - why does she expect everyone to give them a pass? What does it have to do with her? Is she on the payroll?

Incidentally, it's obvious Jonathan lied in the latest answers he provided. Don't have time to go into it now but will try to post some other time.

All, IMHO.

ETA: Will happily stop posting altogether as soon as Jonathan starts being honest.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SurfNow,

I am not a moderator for the MB. I am not on anyone's payroll. I DID NOT DEMAND THAT THIS THREAD BE STOPPED.

I remember a previous post where someone said it would be nice if someone went on the
facebook and asked some questions. I did that. I asked a very general question because it was on the Facebook and I was pleased that Jonathan answered. I copied the answer word for word on to the MB for anyone who was interested. I was okay with his answer, but it raised more questions. I don't like to actively disagree with statements. I am probably too easy going, and some would say naive.

Shay32 is a brand new poster and her opinion was along the same lines as mine so I found it interesting to read...not THRILLED. I DO NOT THINK SHE STOMPED ON ANYONE. In fact, she agreed with a lot of what had been written before. She also may not know about adding IMHO. I know, I forget it most of the time.

I did not demand to stop this thread...I did say that others could go to Facebook, Chat Now and Contact Us if they wanted more answers. I said that because at that time I was not going to do anything more. I thought it over and changed my mind. I went to Facebook and asked another question and got a response. This info was copied to the MB for anyone who wants to read it.

I have done all of this to try to help and have not really voiced my own opinion very much.

It's my thing...to help where I can. I post on several forums and when someone has a question I can answer, I do. I found out how to get to some of the Facebook Pages of the people here on HGTV..so I passed them on to give others the opportunity to read the postings there. This is just my thing. I am retired and I have time, so I do it. No ulterior motives at all.

Marylee

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mriley,

Ladies, gents, etc. LOL.
Ok, sorry that any of this is getting so hot. believe me, it's not that important.
I love to hear many opinions, and if they are wrong, I will state mine and let it go at that.
Animosity, in this first day of Spring? no way.!!
Let's all agree that Property Brothers, have a lot to answer regarding their program.
HGTV also has a lot to answer regarding all of their programs.
Taxes, like death, is a sure thing. LOL.
How much, I guess a tax person could answer that one. Anyone has liability the minute that they get a prize and yes it has to be over 600.00 a year to become taxable.
So, those persons will have to pay some taxes.
I so wish that we could get someone from that program to really tell all of us their experience. But I guess that is too much to ask.

Just a note to say that I am sorry if I stepped out of bounds. I was tired of all the "jawing" as my Mother would have said. I should have just walked away.

It was entirely a decision on my part that I, personally, was done with everything. I evidently wasn't very clear in my post.

After "sleeping on it," I came back and rker hit the nail on the head, I was discouraged.

Again, I am sorry for any misunderstanding.

Now, if some of you will read the post under "Design Star" you will find a notice of new shows coming from HGTV. One of them is a new series by Drew and Jonathan Scott. I saw mention of it on the Facebook and posted the notice here on the Message Board. Marylee

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mriley,

You got to be kidding, another Property Bros. is coming our way? wow, there must be glutons for punishements out there. LOL

Sorry to post on this again but the person above carved up a post of mine. I've been busy so never saw it.

Interesting to me that shay32 posted only once. Don't believe this was a new poster. Someone referred to him/her as she and said she agreed with her post. Amazing to me b/c shay32 recommended that PB participants accept all the freebies and forget about the tax liability - until it slams them in the face the following April 15 or 17, as the case may be. Good luck with that strategy, everyone.

shay32 and any other posters considering that, you may want to check out IRS Form 5805 and any applicable state forms. In particular, notice that penalties are calculated quarterly, unless the taxpayer qualifies for an exception. Besides that, suggesting the participants use the cash and forget about it - how many of these people will have sufficient **$ on hand after purchasing and furnishing their dream home to cover a large tax liability? (See below WRT the liability amount.)

And, according to shay32, buyers pay sales commissions. Since when? Sounds like something copied from a seriously out-of-date RE text. Please, does anyone know a single U.S. homeowner who paid their buyers' agent? Yes, they technically may do that. As a professional, I wouldn't recommend it b/c home prices in the U.S. are grossed up to cover those commissions. I can think of several other reasons to avoid this - won't bore everyone.

If shay32 is correct and the participants owe Drew a commission for helping them locate the property they purchased before Drew arrived on the scene (amazing, huh?), then the participants also owe tax on that waived commission. Besides the 10K cash and 15K merchandise mentioned by Jonathan, if the participants receive the services of a g/c, construction subs and designer free of charge, they're also responsible for tax on the fmv of those services. WRT Jonathan's response, we all know he's not doing volunteer work on PB. Love to hear someone try that excuse in front of the IRS during an audit. Again, good luck!

No, shay32, I have no interest in receiving tips from these two so I can let my own g/c go. I know better than to hire actor/underwear models. If shay32 knew anything about construction, he/she would know that Jonathan's weekly construction issues, obviously manufactured for dramatic purposes, typically contain serious errors.

Amazing that Jonathan would even attempt to answer an inquiry regarding U.S. income taxes. Now he's an expert on that, too? I'm sure the production company utilizes the services of appropriate professionals when calculating the amounts of participant 1099's, not their star actors.

WRT your question, rker, about the actual amounts of income tax liability, that would vary for each participant. This bonus income would be added to their previous income and taxed at their highest marginal rate. In effect, for most people, this income would throw them into a higher tax bracket so they would owe more tax on the prize on a % basis than their regular income.

BTW, shay32 said something about the participants not knowing the amount of their tax liability - again implying that they could simply ignore it. Sorry, kids - that excuse won't fly, either. As taxpayers, we are responsible for understanding our own tax situations, no matter how many thousands of pages (small print, in my copy) are included in the tax code - not to mention the tax regulations, too.

Many other things about shay32's post are simply incorrect. No, they've never said that, except for the items highlighted on the show, everything else consists of their previous furniture. (Incidentally, I may have posted about the 50% figure, incorrectly, previously.) In fact, when they've used the homeowners' previous furniture, they've acted as if it was unusual, special and a huge cost-saving idea they came up with. Besides that, how many of these people already had enough furniture, in the proper dimensions, to furnish their new, usually much larger, dream home?

Okay, Jonathan, let's see some photos of all these stupendous, whole house renovations, posted on your FB pages. When can we expect that? Why haven't any of your happy participants come forward to rave about their places and post those photos?

Has anyone ever noticed that he almost always promises the renos in 4-6 weeks? If you think about that, it normally takes an entire week to shoot a 30 minute program. These HGTV programs usually shoot 3-5 episodes at a time. They're shooting 60 minutes. If they're doing the construction work on say, 4 renos in 5 or 6 weeks, when does he have the time to do anything other than shoot his scenes? (BTW, those estimated shooting schedules came from both participants and hosts on DTS, HH/HHI and MFS, among other HGTV programs.)

No, Jonathan and shay32 haven't convinced me of anything. I know better. Don't understand why they can't simply be honest about their program. We understand it's drama - admit it.

A note to all of you who were interested and intrigued by the tax advice contained in shay32 and Jonathan's posts, follow it at your own peril. If audited, you'll end up writing a very large check. (In case you didn't know, they perform the audits years later, just before the audit period expires. That maximizes the penalties and interest. In addition, they also notify your state so they can collect from you, too.) Happy Tax Day, all!

Thankyou to tsr-res for defending me, above. Have to agree with his/her posts.

Again, apologize for reviving the thread. I'm sure you can understand why I did.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bballdays,

We all agree, that the transparency of this program is quite suspect.
I have written to the brothers for some clarification, and have seen many of the people that post in their FB page with similar questions that we all have asked here, So far, I have not seen any responses so far, perhaps HGTV has advised them to simply keep quiet.
The fact that they claim that they do the whole house but cannot show it in their program is a lot of bs, if you pardon the word.
You can shoot the whole house, and skip the price of some of the items. We want to see how much 60-100,000 of renovation do they actually get. Three rooms, well if that is all, then is not really such a good idea to buy a wreck of a house. and have three rooms looking great. I don't care how much money they give me.
Perhaps some people expect more, pity that we don't have a real couple telling us their experiences.

Interesting to hear that Jonathan (and Drew) stopped talking, rker. (Thanks for posting.) Perhaps tptb had a word with them - however, Jonathan and his two bros are tptb so don't know how that happened, lol. Incidentally, as I believe everyone knows, I have no problem with the drama, so long as they're honest about it and drop the phony claims on FB and elsewhere, e.g. Drew's earned a commission, even though the h/o's previously purchased the home.

Someone PM'd me about the Canada tax system. That was previously addressed in the thread, if you read above. I edited it from my last post for brevity, haha. BTW, if you review their FB pages, then you know they recently completed a new season in Austin, TX. Therefore, the U.S. tax system (and Jonathan's tax advice) are relevant.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bballdays,

Any time, BB. Glad you noticed the thread and commented. I've pretty much given up on HGTV or HH-TV, as they say, lol.

Now you'll know I've totally jumped the shark on this one. (It only required 5 or 10 minutes on a break, so not bad, right?) WRT Drew's RE commission, his registration is conspicuously missing from the Texas RE Board. According to them, no Drew Scott (or Andrew Alfred Scott, his full name) exists on their records. The other Andrew Scotts listed on TREC have all practiced in TX for multiple years, IIRC.

WRT their business, same answer. The Scott RE practice listed on the TX records belongs to another realtor. Checked Jonathan, too - even though I wouldn't expect to find him. No Jonathan Scott or Jonathan Silver Scott exists on their records.

Sorry - tried to post all the above links but my pc and/or their website (or HGTV ??) wasn't cooperating, for some unknown reason. If anybody cares, will try again later.

Drew on TREC?

OK, partial success. It posted the website but blanked out the actual searches. If you input the names listed above and check the two boxes (Salesperson + all name versions), you'll receive the results mentioned. BTW, tested it and if you start entering "Scott" (no quotation marks) in the dropdown, my multiple searches come up. Best it'll do - for me, anyway.

When their new season (Austin, TX) airs, I'll force myself to watch. Curious to see if they change up any of their lines. Everything was so canned - it was easy to recite the entire script in advance, practically. I'm sure they'll continue including the ridiculous, faux, Drew purchase negotiations.

Agree with your estimate regarding the filming schedule - not to mention your tax estimates. We're patiently waiting for those whole house photos - anytime, dude.

More of MHO - again.

Take care.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SurfNow,

We will have to wait until this new series comes to light, they will be dealing with US laws, and perhaps after all the negative comments, they will show what they really do to the houses that they do the renovation.
On Property Income, we can see the entire renovation and the reveal. Therefore they should be able to do the same.

I just enjoy watching the show, I don't care about tax issues, or how much the depicted owners really get.
It just shows that smart buyers can buy the ugly house for less, then transform it into the house they want but can't afford.

No worries, Meischa - your choice. As an experienced professional, I was understandably concerned to hear posters and actor/underwear models furnishing dangerous tax advice. I enjoy the house p*orn myself and have seen every episode, although I frequently skip the canned lines. Would love to see the entire house.

Back at ya', tsr. Good catch on the TX realtors. I've always been convinced Drew isn't a Toronto realtor, either, but don't know where to check. They grew up in Vancouver and live in LV so -

I'm really curious to hear/see if they change anything, too, rker. Bet they don't change anything of substance. IIRC, they were claiming to have the No. 1 U.S. HGTV show when I checked out FB several times. Why risk it?

Here's the IP casting call - notice they indicate 9 shoot days for a 30 minute episode.

IP casting

No way can Mr. Magician - Jonathan - do all the things he talks about - while shooting a 60 minute episode.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bballdays,

bball and tsr are just trolling IMHO. The show is entertaining for many of us and your subtle animosity towards it is; well, not so subtle. JMHO

Don't know what you mean by trolling, Jarek - please define it for me. It's obviously intended to be a durogatory term, directed towards me and another poster, personally.

I've seen every new episode of PB. Wanted to like it very much but didn't. I expressed my opinions about the show and only, the show. I'm entitled to express my opinion.

Given that your post says almost nothing about the show and was basically posted for the purpose of criticizing 2 posters personally for expressing their honest opinions - perhaps you are the only poster expressing animosity.

If you care to post again with genuine observations about the show or respond to any of the show opinions previously posted, please do so. Alternatively, feel free to PM me.

JMHO.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bballdays,

Jarek,

How do we know you didn't post (as a tr* oll) for the purpose of infl* aming the situation?

BB said it well so no need for me to repeat everything.

Glad you enjoy PB. Doesn't mean the rest of us must. Also doesn't mean we're not entitled to express our opinions.

I love watching Property Brothers. It is a reality show, and I enjoy how the homes turn from garbage to a diamond. Life is too short for me to examine unimportant issues with a microscope. I cannot believe how everyone is so concerned with something that has nothing to do with them.

These shows are for entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. Some of the programs I enjoy, others bore me to tears, ie, House Hunters International. Nevertheless, if Jonathan was an underwear model before becoming a contractor, more power to him. He is very easy on the eyes, and I would love to see him in his tighty whities..lol. I love to watch the PB, Drew and Scott compliment each other and put a great show together.

I do agree that any program on TV is for entertaiment purposes only. but, they do have a responsibility to provide honesty to what they seem to represent.
That doesn't absolve them from a lot of realities that this program likes.
I don't care how fantastic their properties look I care as the program stresses of what they can do with X amount of monies for renovations.
That entails a lot of transparency that this shows lacks.

We all understand it's drama and entertainment, Andiegirl. We'd simply prefer a little more honesty and actual reality from the hosts. It's all a charade, to me.

We're entitled to our opinions. Please respect them - we respect yours. It's only faux-reality TV, after all.

JMHO, as usual.

I keep thinking that this thread will run its course and be finished, but it is like the bunny, it just keeps on going.

I have been reading the comments since I stopped posting. Several people have attempted to share their opinions about the Property Brothers show and each time they are answered with comments stating that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I think we all agree with that.

Now, I am going to regress for a moment. I was misquoted by a poster who only skimmed the posts instead of reading them. The poster said that they "had jumped the shark" and that made everything okay. It was also mentioned that no one had asked me to go to Facebook for answers and I would like to let you know that was not the case. There is a post on page three of the Favorites Forum listed under the topic "Property Brothers." This was posted by Steve3 on Oct. 27, 2011 and on page two in a post dated March 4, 2012, the last line reads: "If anyone can ask them on FB for us, I'd love to hear their explanation."

On March 7, 2012 I posted my first question and answer from Jonathan Scott.

On the question of taxes, I don't believe that anyone is going to take what is said on the Message Board as "tax advice." I don't believe that was anyone's intention. There are too many rates and regulations and variables that only someone experienced in tax matters can answer. I think we all agree that there will be taxes to pay and that should be taken into consideration when you are receiving taxable gifts, prizes, services, etc.

I believe we all agree that Property Brothers is for entertainment and maybe some remodeling and decorating ideas thrown in there. I, for one, am just going to watch and not sweat the fact that they don't disclose everything that I think they should. It is not going to make or break my day.

I am going to sit back and wait for Design Star to start their new season. There the drama is on the show and not on the Message Board.

All the above is just my opinion.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mriley,

No, you're incorrect. They didn't attempt to express their opinions - they did express their opinions. No one stopped them, called them names or told them that their opinion was unimportant.

So, let me get this straight; it's perfectly fine to call someone a tr* oll (still don't know what it is but it's probably only a smidge above po____) or their opinions unimportant. Explain politely that everyone's entitled to their own opinion, however, and that deserves both a lengthy response plus criticism.

I'm not the one trying to continue this thread. I have neither the time nor the inclination to quote chapter and verse in an attempt to win some unknown argu* ment. (If you want to post on FB or DS or anywhere else, please do.) I've only politely responded when acc* used.

Well, you and your friends may consider my opinion unimportant. The PB participants, if they consult the two actors for tax advice and end up getting sla* mmed with a bill later, will definitely disagree with you. No need to worry - those two only li *e when their lips are moving.

And that's all JMHO.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bballdays,

bb, I am afraid I did not make myself clear if you think I was in any way considering your opinions as unimportant. I thought you were giving information, not advice. You and several others gave factual information regarding tax liability. You felt that posters would take what PB said regarding taxes as fact. I just don't think people reading the Message Board are going to go to PB for tax advice. But, I guess if even one person was going to go that route and your comments made them think twice, then the information you gave was well worth their reading.

I will admit that I should not have said "attempt" in my comment. I don't know why I did. Guess I wasn't thinking. Even though I was agreeing with the fact that everyone has a right to express their opinion, I should do a better job of proofing my comments.

bb, I perceived the word tr*olling in the context of fishing...you tr*oll the waters.

All the above is just my opinion.

This is my second response. My first didn't make it past the moderators.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mriley,

Look the reality is that most of us have a real problem with this program, We don't like the fact that they try to fool many as to the extent of their renovations.
Is like they are trying to tell us, hey, we can do your home for so much, and it turns out that they only do a couple of rooms. but they expect you to believe that they renovate the whole house.
Is like they are making fun of all us that want to see real renovations to get an idea as to the cost.

Hey I'm new here and I know I'm a bit late, but just wanted to point out that Jonathan and Drew have both answered many of your questions over the months via their facebook and twitter pages / accounts and the official Property Brothers facebook fan page. It will probably be much easier (and much more likely to get a response) if instead of posting the questions here, each of you head over there and ask your individual questions.

As for the question of furniture, as far as I understand it, the renovation budget also includes the design pieces (furniture bought) - that's why when you see in episodes when the couple wants to go all out and splurge on the furniture and appliances, they have to take something off of the renovation budget.

Where the couples get the renovation budget from is another thing ... according to both brothers, some banks will allow you to tack on a renovation loan to a mortgage ... in other cases it comes from other sources ... it depends on what options your bank and financiers make available to you.

Occasionally the show's sponsors will also donate items.

Hanving discussed the Property Brothers at nauseum,
The only thing that I have to ad is "oh boy do you ever make big asssumptions."

I skipped a a great deal of the discussion and I know Property Brothers have moved on to a new concept, but I really have to point out one major flaw in everyone's tax concerns, besides assuming the homeowners are stupid and don't know these things; the are in CANADA! The IRS doesn't care.

To Shay32 if you are lurking somewhere on the board either as Shay32 or someone else - have you ever purchased or sold property in the US? Obviously you don't have a clue how it works. Besides Bballdays is correct, Drew is probably not their real agent. On all the shows, including Property Virgins, the home buyer has their real agent working for them.

As for the contractor brother - I would hope a successful contractor can manage more than one project at a time. He is not in there doing the tile work - he hires subcontractors to do those jobs. In addition to his over sight he would have project managers working for him to do the day to day oversight.

WOW!!

What a lively post LOL
I luv all the different opinions and statements, so very intelligent posters
the diversity is interesting and lively,

different opinions rule our world,without it we would not be so uniquely individual? hooray

quote:

Originally posted by CC-IMO:
WOW!!

What a lively post LOL
I luv all the different opinions and statements, so very intelligent posters
the diversity is interesting and lively,

different opinions rule our world,without it we would not be so uniquely individual? hooray

CC-IMO--

So sorry that this site doesn't have a "fan" capability. I nonetheless declare myself your fan. I've enjoyed your posts on other threads as well--and that's true for most of the cast of characters here.

quote:

Originally posted by tsr-res:
The most recent seasons of PB and their new series B&S were filmed in TX so the tax considerations are valid. (Incidentally, they both live in Las Vegas so they filmed considerably closer to home.) This was discussed previously - on this thread or another. (No worries, Charming - the thread's too long!)

Production companies won't take on the huge liabilities involved with either RE deals or construction work. The participants engage their own realtors. Local gc's complete each renovation project.

These two are actors with an incredible pr machine. If you enjoy their brand of drama, watch it.

JMHO.

About the contractors - I don't know about the others, but I didn't expect the hosts of the shows to be there doing the work. Some programs used to be more open than others about that info.

I never watched the show that closely - bump into it while channel surfing but I never cared for most of the home buyers - so I thought it was one of the Canadian imports, thanks for clearing that up. As for the hosts - I hope thaat the producers are being honest about their backgrounds and they have actually worked in their respective fields before becoming television hosts.

While, yes they both appeared on a TV show once when they were kids, their acting careers consist mostly of self produced work. Plus, most HGTV stars have acting in their past. Many struggling actors have other jobs that support themselves while they follow their dreams. And some find that they are much more successful in their side jobs than they are as actors.

Yes, truths are twisted a bit for television reality shows. But, the ultimate truth in this show is that you can buy a crappy looking house for cheap and fix it up to make it look like your dream home, and save buckets of money in doing so. I love the show and like their style in terms of the designs they produce.

Also, it would seem to me that anyone that can afford an $800,000 home can afford to pay some extra taxes on all of the freebies they got with the show. Why do so many of these posters feel they deserve an explanation as to how these people are handling their taxes. It's really none of your concern and has nothing to do with the show. Why would they think about getting into all of that on a design show. The reason you are getting generalized answers to your questions is because it is a case by case answer that is none of your business.

In my experience, the dollar estimates they give for renovations are accurate (if you shop around of course). I have done a lot of renos in my life and know the high and low ends of cost for these types of things. The turn around times are only accurate if you have experience as a General Contractor yourself and are doing the job, or you have someone you work with often and can trust to keep on that tight of a schedule. It can be doable, but not as realistic as the prices they show. (So often you are held up by inspections that I think make their turn around times more unrealistic. Again, totally possible though.)

I am definitely a fan of the show though. I don't tend to feel the need to question every move someone makes on a reality show. It is a television show, after all.