Do HGTV contractors do this remodeling with no permits?
I especially am thinking of shows like Yard Crashers, House Crashers, Room Crashers.
This work is supposedly done in three days.
But the shows are so FAKE, do the hosts even really meet the couples in the store. Or do the people apply to be on the show and the whole "meeting them at the store" is fake.
Also how much lag time is between meeting them at the store, and the work? Are we really to believe, they meet at the store and the VERY NEXT DAY, the work starts?
Today House crashers is doing an entire kitchen, replacing windows, putting in a French door, etc -- not a permit or inspection even MENTIONED. They OPENED A WALL, by like 6-8 feet...I know -- or HOPE they put in a header...but not an inspection even mentioned.
In addition to permit issues.....new EPA rules went into affect TWO YEARS AGO, about handling lead. And while the THIS OLD HOUSE crews abide by those rules -- waring suits, wrapping the material, and disposing of it -- the crews on HGTV never abide by that -- or at least they don't show it.
They just bust painted cabinets from the 1970s, and replace old windows and trim...NO evidence on camera that they are following the FEDERAL regulations.
CLB - good to see you back, btw - this is one of the things that makes me crazy too. They never even mention it, so when Joe Blow down the street decides to renovate without permits and gets a hefty fine, he's going to be saying "But..but...but...they did it on HGTV!". Good luck, Joe Blow.
My pet peeve is the way they throw in hardwood flooring without allowing it to acclimate first. If I'm not mistaken 3 days is the minimum and longer is better. As expensive a project as hardwood is, you'd think they'd at least mention it even if it doesn't show them actually doing it.
I have a modest proposal: a new HGTV show called PERMIT ME. We follow Joe Doaks Contractor around his local permit office and watch him wait in line and haggle with the bureaucrats. Only to come back three days later, because the office cannot find the proper plats and paperwork.
After a week, Joe Doaks holds up the permit to the camera to reassure the viewing public that his permit(s) is real, not faked. And, he will even offer a COPY of the permit to anyone in the viewing audience who insists on it.
Each episode will air in real time, for however long it takes our hero to secure the permit. It will have to be a mini-series.
AY, I get your point too - but to not even acknowledge that there is a need for permits or for things like aclimatization is, IMO, misleading to the viewers. Same way the designers on Designed to Sell just happened to have exactly the right leftover small slab of granite for a bathroom vanity, or fabric in a back closet that they donate to make wonderful drapes. In RL it's rarely going to happen, and in the case of the necessity for permits, etc., can be disastrous for the viewer who thinks they can do the same thing. Sure they should be smart enough to realize it, but until I got into the design business I never gave wood installation needs a second thought.
Sorry I disagree. Caveat emptor, buyer beware and all that. Any homeowner who relies on HGTV or any other TV show, without doing his/her due diligence, has no right to complain. Ignorance of the law is no defense. It's really unfair to pin that rap on HGTV.
ETA: HGTV does not represent itself as a legal expert or advisor on home remodeling or decorating, so to expect HGTV to dispense advice like that -- or to be criticized for not doing so -- is rather silly, IMO.This message has been edited. Last edited by: aychihuahua,
I haven't seen much on yard crashers that would require a permit. They are not building permanent structures on the home.
Income Property frequently has permitting issues.
As for the other shows, I'm sure they are following whatever rules are in place in the community. I don't think the producers want to be sued by a locality for building code violations.
The producers have no liability for code violations; only the homeowners. Buyer beware...
IP indicates that they do significant advance work covering all of those issues, plus reviewing homeowner financial situations and budgets/financing for the renos.
The Crasher store scenes are staged - that was admitted somewhere. They've already selected the home so it's altogether possible they've also completed advance work. Like IP, they usually don't air inspector visits, however - if they occur. (One caveat: I've seen very few Crasher episodes.)
Bottom line, I agree - the homeowners are responsible for asking those questions and making sure those issues are taken care of.This message has been edited. Last edited by: bballdays,
I don't believe I in any way suggested:
-- that all the permitting process should be shown
-- that we should have a show that's all about permitting
-- or that all remodeling work should be done in real time
EXCUUUSEE me for wanting to see at least a mention of it, and some acknowledgement of it. That can be done in one voiceover line, or on-screen pop-up.
If they can do it on THIS OLD HOUSE they can do in on HGTV. I believe the contractor and homeowner are responsible for following FEDERAL lead handling laws. I think I've seen ONE show on HGTV where they mention it. And surely more HGTV shows than that have aired in the last year or so have been taped since those regulations started.
It is true it's not MY problem if they shown on TV not following federal regulations. I hope those contractors don't mind paying fines. And yes, the homeowners should be wary, because I'm willing to bet the releases they sign make THEM responsible for anything that goes wrong. But that would still be less than the cost of all that work on the open market, so even with all that I guess they come out ahead.
Sorry, clb - I went back and edited my post (before seeing your latest) that I couldn't remember Crashers airing any inspector visits, although they might have once or twice on IP.
ITA, it's not necessary for them to take the time to show everything in real time. A simple mention of it would be nice. IIRC, that's happened on IP.
Don't know about coming out ahead. That's probably subjective and depends on the situation. They can have significant problems at resale and might not be able to declare that extra rumpus room or bedroom or whatever. In very extreme cases, they might have to rip something out.
One problem with including permits - at most I think the host can say the appropriate permits are in place. Each locality is different in what requires a permit. In the town next to where I live I think you have to have a permit to install a fence! Go 1/2 mile and I do not need a permit to build a fence.
Do I need a permit to rip out cabinets and install new ones? Do I need a permit to redo the bathroom? Do I need a permit if I do the construction myself? Do I need a permit to build a deck? Do I need a permit to add a pergola? Each community is different.
In some older areas you need to have approval to paint the house. All of these issues are local and add nothing to the viewer in Smalltown Boonies.
Whether they come out ahead depends on how much they as homeowners paid for the work, if anything.
The VALUE of the work may be considered income, and may have to be declared on taxes, which would still be cheaper than paying for the full price of the work.
Of course we've all seen some sloppy work on some of these shows. If the work falls apart after the show leaves, and the homeowners have to undo or redo it.....was it worth it? Only they know that. If A city inspector sees the work on TV and there were no permits, there could be fines, and worse case scenario the work would have to be UNdone. I wouldn't want to UNdo a kitchen remodel. And you can bet the SHOW is not responsible for that.
Obviously the people on these shows feel the reduced price work, or free professional designs are worth being on the show.
I know a bit about TV and work in a related field, and everyone I know in my work....none of US are eager to let a TV show anywhere near our house. I can't say I NEVER would -- but I'd be very wary.This message has been edited. Last edited by: clbselah,
clbselah, Aside from the sloppiness of the work done on shows like designed to sell, a number of the shows use local contractors. From what they decide to show on the air the finish work may not be up to your standards, they usually show competent electrical and plumbing and go out of their way to mention using licensed contractors.
I think the permitting process is covered with homeowners. Don't you think the teams of lawyers working for Scripts and the producers are aware of these types of issues? The producers have probably decided the average viewer doesn't care what the permitting requirements are in Modesto, CA because they are living elsewhere where the rules are different. As I mentioned before it would not hurt for host or someone to mention if doing the work yourself check to see if you need a building permit. That is about as far as they should go and probably will when the stupidest homeowner in the country's house falls down after they try to add a 2nd story to a ranch and sues the the producers of some show they saw.
I would imagine the world would hear about it if a homeowner got hit with code violations and fines following an episode of Design for whatever. (along with a lawsuit against the producers) Anyone participating in the shows probably has to sign forms out the ying yang to get their 15 minutes of fame.
I think of this discussion as the one about Property Virgins supposedly allowing the buyers to walk into the properties unescorted. Except there are cameramen and sound people all around them.
Yup. Much dado about nothing.
Added... since the boards are so slow.... why not discuss nothing.
For any homeowner that is going thru a reno. Haven't they ever seen Holmes on Holmes? The man screams permits each and every time in any of his programs.
Yes,depending on the State, you need different permits for different things.
Where I live, you need a permit for practically everything, but also, I live in the Hurricane State.
I imagine that other States can be more flexible.
The reason that many don't get permits because they get convinced by a contractor that getting a permit will rise the price of the reno.
Bad, bad decission. I would throw out of my house any contractor that says that I don't need a permit. I can always call the building Inspection Dpt of any locality and find out.
But they sure have decided to ram HH/HHI down our throats....and the houses are different for locale to locale...and CERTAINLY couldn't be more different from country to country.
Apparently they think I care about seeing someone house hunt for a shoebox in Japan or a hut in Thailand.
It only they would LISTEN to what many of us TELL them we're interested in.
I'm only partially kidding
Yeah, I remember that....This message has been edited. Last edited by: clbselah,
CLB, I agree with you. It would take little time to include mention of permits.
The Holmes on Homes show (and Holmes' other shows) mentions the problems resulting from contractors' work NOT meeting permit standards (and not seeking the permits) on just about every show.
I see little downside to including mention, and it might help inexperienced homeowners a lot just to learn that these requirements could exist.
Sorry for the repetition, rker--I just saw your post and I agree. Yes, it's a pain to get the permit, and sometimes to wait for the inspector to come out to approve the work. But that's nothing compared to the pain of incompetent contractors--and there would be a lot more of them around if there were no/few permitting standards. It's not a guarantee of good work, but probably reduces the incidence of shoddy work.This message has been edited. Last edited by: ACWhite,
This is so funny!!! Today we were watching a program on HGTV this morning and they were doing a reno, and my husband said, don't these contractors get any permits?
He even noticed that either they don't or they don't say a word about it. LOL
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