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FINALLY, someone else has mentioned something that annoys me like fingernails on the chalkboard....hearing Voila pronounced wala.
Drives me CRAZY and one hears it ALL THE TIME.

Voila means There it is in French.
Voici means Here it is in French.

IF people on tv are going to use words, they should at minimum know how to pronounce them.
Further people should know the meaning of the words they use. Another one that bugs me is using the word facetious as being synonymous with the word humorous. 10 lashes with a wet noodle.

You're right, I hear mispronounced words all the time and words used in the wrong context. You would think the scriptwriters or production techs would catch that.

I think the general public has become used to "less than perfect" language because of certain music styles and texting.

The "less than perfect" language you refer to MR, has been raging as a debate for several hundred years among linguists, writing stylists and dictionary publishers.

Just read an article about this recently, and it's fascinating to see how some phrases seen as grammatically incorrect today were commonly used in Shakespeare's writings. Also, English is the home of many different foreign words in the lexicon, mostly French, with lots of Spanish for good measure.

Of course, so many American English speakers have zero experience in speaking other languages, so it's not surprising that foreign cognates are mispronounced. For instance, it irks the heck out of me that the word Nevada, for the state, is not pronounced by locals correctly as a Spanish word, which means snow-covered. But, hey, that's the common usage
so who am I to complain.

Aychihuahua is right but still your grievance bugs me too Lu, as does mantle for mantel and being called "you guys" (especially by someone 60 years younger than I am!)

Also things like "this is a picture of he and I" or "she gave a present to my husband and I"

Aychihuahua, how is Nevada pronounced.

About many American English speakers having zero experience in any other language. I used to feel ashamed of that till I finally got the opportunity to travel. When I consider how short a trip it is for my London dwelling friends to get to France or when my DGD just took a bus trip from Prague to Berlin and only needed sandwiches for refreshments, I recognize that the previous admiration I felt for such abilities is really misplaced. They simply respond to the circumstances in which they live as do we.

Yes, I am aware of the miss-use of the words...

I was forced to learn English (and not perfect English either, in the Boston area they took away the 'R's' ! LOL pahk tha cah! (park the car).

Because I didn't want to be here in this country at 10 yrs old. Being brought here against my will by my estranged mother. Life was not good and school was even harder with having no one speak the French (from Nova Scotia, so not the Paris France French, or even the Quebec French, we had our own dialect) communication was so difficult. My mother forbade us to talk French at home so we could learn (including her) the English language, this had been a one-way move.

So, through that struggle to communicate I had the verb tenses and masculine/feminine parts of my original language figured out (to third grade) only to abandon those rules with English. And pick up what? Rules of grammar that were not consistent, one word spelled differently a few different times (ie. to, too, two)

Vois, is such a small word. I wonder if they do it on purpose? by sawing 'wa'.

We recently talked to a native Hawaiian who said that Hawaiians pronounce it in Hawaiian is properly written "Hawai`i" and pronounced /Huh-VIE-ee/.

You are right age-old problem with a language that cannot be made right. Just once in a while that old 'hated to have to work so hard to learn another language, English and all its quirks' seems to grind into my brain like a needle when I hear wala!

LOS that "I" thing gets me all the time! "The Merriam-Webster Dictionary of English Usage says that it’s a style choice, and that “It is I” is a formal style and “It is me” is a more casual style.
But the 'he and I'... hummmm

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mary Ruth,

quote:

Originally posted by lady of shallot:


Aychihuahua, how is Nevada pronounced.

It's properly pronounced Neh-vah-dah.

But, dems fightin' words in the state where the locals insist on calling it Ne-vadd-a, with that real flat "a" sound.

Here's one man's effort to change the pronuciation: http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/...oure-probably-wrong/

That was neat to watch aychihuahua! Ne-vadd-a!

I guess I was pronouncing Nevada correctly but only a couple of months ago I learned that I was mispronouncing Mah Jongg, a game I took up about a year ago.

None of the other players told me till a friend of a player asked me why I said it incorrectly. I did not realize I was. I was saying majongg (I guess with a short A) it should be pronounced Ma Jongg. Still a tongue twister for me but I try.

quote:

Originally posted by aychihuahua:



Of course, so many American English speakers have zero experience in speaking other languages, so it's not surprising that foreign cognates are mispronounced. For instance, it irks the heck out of me that the word Nevada, for the state, is not pronounced by locals correctly as a Spanish word, which means snow-covered. But, hey, that's the common usage
so who am I to complain.

I lived for almost 20 years in Nevada, Missouri -- it was pronounced NeVAYdah. It was named for Nevada City, California as were towns in Iowa and Texas -- all three are pronounced NeVAYdah -- I always suspected that coming over the Rockies caused the founding fathers to not remember how the original town name was pronounced!!!! LOL!!!

And my great grandmother was named Nevada -- pronounced like all those "Eastern" towns -- in fact her nickname was Vada.

I do know that if you call information for a phone number for Nevada, Missouri -- you get much quicker service and understanding when you pronounce it like the State.

Martha

Wonder what Hyacinth Bucket would think of this thread? LOL!

jaysmom,
That is bouquet! lol

quote:

Originally posted by jaysmom49:
Wonder what Hyacinth Bucket would think of this thread? LOL!

LOLOLOL!!!

quote:

Wonder what Hyacinth Bucket would think of this thread? LOL!

Probably nothing. Hyacinth is only an extreme example of the many English we met on our Panama Cruise who think anything non-English is incorrect.

I remember one woman who was indignant that there was any such item as an "English" muffin. When she received her breakfast eggs I pointed out to her that they were on an "English" muffin.

Guess it was o.k. that they call American bacon "streaky bacon" which I had never heard before.

Then there's the matter of mangled English. Here in the South, it isn't uncommon for someone's parent's sister to be an aint. I ask, it that spelled a i n ' t? As an import from the North, sometimes the southern pronunciations make me crazy and many times it's because I have no idea what the person is talking about. Might as well be spoken in Greek!

I drove through Arkansas one time on my way to Texas for camping vacation. We went with friends and the gal had to have her Pepsi, so we drove off the highway to a main street market, we went inside and I asked the gal behind the counter where the Tonic was, she looked at me weird, I said 'sorry' Pepsi. She said 'Oh you meant sodee pop'! Hummmm... then she said 'I'yo te'yen...'

I was like 'what'? We walked around, found the Pepsi ourselves, on the way back, I saw the isle sign 10 I said 'Oh that is what she meant Isle 10! LOL At least we got the Pepsi and were on our way!

An easy way to remember the 'him & me and the her & I' stuff is to remember how you would say the pronouns if used by themselves, ie: He went to the store, I went to the store = He and I went to the store, not 'him and me went to the store'. Sometimes the correct grammar sounds stilted, but to me it sounds better than the grating misuse.

And, with the voila, the 'v' is pronounced so softly, that most people never even heard the word pronounced with the 'v', so they say what they hear.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mgt,

quote:

An easy way to remember the 'him & me and the her & I' stuff is to remember how you would say the pronouns if used by themselves, ie: He went to the store, I went to the store = He and I went to the store, not 'him and me went to the store'.

It amazes me that so many people (sadly some I'm related to) constantly misuse the English language in this way. When they say "she gave a present to Bob and I" don't they realize that if they were the only one to have gotten a present it would be "they gave a present to me" Seems simple enough to me.

IF I am not mistaken, there is no letter W in the French language.

One of the reasons Americans write and speak such poor English is 1) the school don't insist on it and 2) television reporters and celebrities don't use good English. Makes me feel so OLD and cranky to be annoyed but I AM.

Only recently, because of social media and written communication, I have noticed the oddest offence. Why on earth do people substitute the word "then" for the word "than" ???? Eample: "My house is smaller
THEN your house?" I find it absolutely bewildering.(It also drives me up the wall. lol)

~Lady50

quote:

Originally posted by Love, Lu:
One of the reasons Americans write and speak such poor English is 1) the school don't insist on it and 2) television reporters and celebrities don't use good English. Makes me feel so OLD and cranky to be annoyed but I AM.

Count me in the old and cranky category too.

If I hear one more person say "Me and my friend" I'm going to choke them. Whatever happened to "My friend and I?"

My other pet peeve is using ostentatious language to attempt to make oneself sound intelligent. Simple, well spoken English is always more pleasant than worn out cliched phrases.

I do not know if this is just a regional problem or not, but my biggest pet peeve is when people pronounce the word "picture" as " pitcher" !!!!

It makes me crazy !!! It is so common here. Does that happen other places, too?

I must have missed it but how do *you* pronouce "Voila"

I grew up in Ora-gun, and lived in Ne-va'-duh for a while before moving to Californya, never "Cali"

I'm also in the "old and cranky" category about language (as well as other things the older I get LOL). I'm always amazed that even people who have university degrees are so ignorant. My DM, who was a teacher, is probably "rolling in her grave" as her favorite subject was English grammar. Not mine so I had extra lessons at home in the evenings! Ugh! I know I often revert to slang and sometimes probably even bad grammar altho certainly *should* know better! I do blame/credit the internet for many of the current changes in language. Also media of all types for the fact we hear/read about all the mispronunciations/misspellings/bad grammar more than if we were isolated as people previously were.

quote:

Originally posted by Love, Lu:
IF I am not mistaken, there is no letter W in the French language.

I had to go and find my Harrop's as I could only remember 'wagon-lit' as a word that starts with W in French. It's true there are not many W words in French and many are pronounced as V but there is a W in French and sometimes it's even pronounced as W.

quote:

Originally posted by wendek:
I must have missed it but how do *you* pronouce "Voila"

I pronounce it vwalah.

Language has never been static, it's always changing - and sometimes not for the better. And when we take regional differences into account and hear them spoken on the news daily it becomes even more interesting. I actually love when some of those "good ol' Southun boys" are interviewed on the news altho it's not always easy to know what they are saying!

So EDUCATE us, Joy, I bet of you.

Tell me French words beginning with W which are actually prounced as we would English speakers would pronounce a W.

When my 36 year old son was 12, I wanted to enroll us in the immersion program at Jonquierre but they were no longer taking children. Living in the US, my French education was not aural.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Love, Lu,

Oh, shoot. I'm an English teacher, but I do say, "you guys," all the time. I blame my teenage students, for all my language misdeeds... And this iPad for auto correcting!

If you want to hear some mispronounced words just come down here to TN. LOL My daughter is an English teacher and she corrects me sometimes.

One thing that irritates me is when I hear those from away from here call the area where Sargent York the war hero grew up Pall Mall (paul maul). It is pronounced pal mal (rhymes with pal). Was out on the 127 yard sale today and heard it. I want to correct them every time. LOL

There absolutely is a W in the French language. Their alphabet is exactly like in the USA, except some of the letters are pronounced differently.

I think this is an interesting conversation as language fascinates me. Our country, (the USA) is so big that there are very distinct regional differences in pronunciation.

Several years ago our family spent a year in Massachusetts for my husbands work. My daughter was in about Kindergarten, or maybe first grade. Anyway, we were called in for a conference with her teacher as the teacher felt that my daughter was having trouble communicating in school due to her "thick Western accent". She thought that if our family could learn to speak correctly it would help our daughter. All the while the teacher was speaking in what to me was a "thick Eastern accent". At some points I could hardly understand her. So there we were, both speaking English, but having a hard time understanding each other because we came from different parts of our country. And technically we were all speaking correctly.

One of the most valuable things I have learned through all of my travels is that most likely my own version of what I consider to be the "right" way to say or do something is not the opinion held by others in the world. A strong dose of tolerance and patience helps a lot.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: cocok,

Pall Mall is probably pronounced "paul maul" by most people because that is how the cigarettes of the same name were pronounced by the company that made them. Also it would then rhyme with words like all, ball, call, fall, gall, hall, mall!, pall!, tall, wall and of course y'all! Things that make ya go hmmmm.

The Pall Mall cigarettes were named after the tony street of gentleman's clubs in London, of the same name, in 1899, as a way to appeal to the upscale market in the UK. It was pronounced paell-maell, like the street.

The British brand was acquired by RJ Reynolds, and for 60 years, the pronunciation stayed the same. In 1970, when cigarette advertising was banned on TV, the company changed the pronunciation to "paul-maul." (I just love Google, don't you!!)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: aychihuahua,

Aychihuahua,
Now that you mention it............

I'm 68 years old. Suddenly I remember the cigarette being pronounce Pell Mells here in Ky NOT Paul Mauls or Pal Mals.

Isn't that peculiar that I had completely forgotten that pronunciation until you brought it up.

And for Cocok...........
About 23 years ago my son and I were touring in my husband's home state of MA. People kept asking me where I was from mentioning my accent.
My son suddenly turned to me and said "WHAT is wrong with these people? They're the ones with the accent. Not us". Still makes me laugh all these years later.

quote:

Originally posted by Love, Lu:
And for Cocok...........
About 23 years ago my son and I were touring in my husband's home state of MA. People kept asking me where I was from mentioning my accent.
My son suddenly turned to me and said "WHAT is wrong with these people? They're the ones with the accent. Not us". Still makes me laugh all these years later.

That is SO funny!

You are probably right about why they call Pall Mall like they do but the locals get irritated. LOL I guess the spelling is deceiving too. I guess that goes to show not everything is as it looks.

OK, I grew up in New Orleans. If ya'll are getting into phonology...I'm going to keep my mouth shut. LOL!

Update: On June 30, the Queen's English Society, committed to protecting the standards of the language, closed its doors, due to lack of interest about speaking proper English. Not everyone is upset about this. :>)

Read all about it here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...g-proper-longer.html